Anybody thought how having closed borders would effect other game mechanics such as scouting the galaxy? granted most exploring takes place in Gal Civ II in the first section of the game anyway, but particularly on larger map sizes a fair portion of the galaxy can remain unexplored even with multiple scout ships and a lack of range. Implementing closed borders could seriously hamper a players ability to find new systems mid to late game and as such cap their growth.

Obviously there are ways around this such as previously mentioned cloaks and freedom of non-combat vessels, but that throws up new problems of typically small ship sizes without much room and how people may want scouts having at least at a minimal level of protection. Finding a system that works perfectly may be next to impossible, it just about finding enough of a balance to seem realistic yet fair at the same time.

I think that depends on the size of the borders. A space 2-3 hex fields around a planet shouldn't hamper yout scouting abilities a lot, Only in dense inhabited space, you'd find a solid "block" you'd have to move around.

Regarding the mines: Of course it's impossible to mine a complete cube with an edge of a parsec. Mines in space do have a purpose in my opinion only if you know on which vector your enemy is likely to sail by, so you could greatly decrease the volume to be mined.

And you don't need a distance of 1 km between two mines. A mine would consist of a passive(!) sensor array (using radar would be a good way to help the enemy to eliminate them, screaming "I'm here, kill me!"), a very strong one-shot laser or graser driven by a strong energy device, say a fusion bomb. A laser or graser fed by a pulse of such a detonation could easily hit an enemy ship (and inflict damage upon) over several thousend kilometers, so no need to place them in a 1-km grid. No one expects a ship to literally collide with a mine to take damage.

Such a mine would be cheap to produce, so you could easily lay several thousands of them. Still, it would not suffice to mine a complete hex field of GC, it would just be enough to 'secure' the direct approach to a planet or something valuable and if you know which way the enemy ships will take (because they have no other choice) which normally is unlikely.

That's not a mine, it's a drone. If it's big enough to have hyperdrive and sensors, there's no reason the enemy fleet can't detect it and blast it to smithereens like any weak ship.

Mines are only usefull in small '2D' areas (land-based) and around small 3D objects (space-based).

I'd just like to be able to issue an edict to other species (per race, to all major or minor races and to all races). If the warned races violate it, I'd like to be able to warn them and if they ignore it, destroy the offending ship/fleet without starting a full-scale war.

Solution; Magic

Seriously; we're in a game fighting humanoid aliens in what are basically naval ships lifted into space firing black holes at each other, it doesn't have to make sense damnit!

Ok this is reasonable as far as I'm concerned, but Jack does have a point that as far as a diplomatic incident, or what the other races think this is diplomatically dependent on what the other species relationship with u and the offending species.

or, just don't have mines. There is no reason why the game needs space mines... Particularily if they're as annoying as the ones in Sins. 

Id like to close off boarders, But that does not mean a ship could not enter.  It just means you are crossing into my space, and i am declaring any ship that does so, an act of war..

you could set it so you get a flag, that says a ship is in your territory (if detected) and the option to start a war.  This could lead to a deeper diplomatic game.

your territory is closed, even if not going to war, a species colonizes some planets in your systems. How other species veiw this would be the strength of your influence , along with military in that region, how you deal with the situation ect.

there is a lot that can be done with this to add more depth/flavor along with strategic game play

I quite like the internationally defined borders and nationally defined borders ideas, beyond the influence mechanic. An idea I would have is deploying a sensor net along your border; automated sensor probes to detect passage across the border, as an early warning system of attack or trespass.

Cloaked ships would be able to sneak past with luck and the right tech and stuff, and if you already know you're at war with a race on your border, the advanced warning's not going to make all that much of a difference, though if the enemy wanted they could just blow a hole (or several, to confuse you as to which entry point the enemy will use) through the net if they don't want their fleet composition observed. That might be a reason to utilise scout ships during wartime instead of just the early explore/colonise phase - it gives them a role in neutralising lightly defend enemy targets, like the sensor net, maybe taking out mining outposts or trade outposts if some of he ideas for the 0 class planets from another thread would be implemented (Unlikely, but it would be cool)

There doesn't really seem to be a concept of 'territory' in Galciv like you find in EuropaUniversalis or Civ. Might add interesting gameplay.

     Well one of the things we got to take into account of sensors is range; I'm not talking about regular sensors but the kind for scanning borders. R we going to add lasers to these kind of sensors. How r we going to do this. We should have stats on this. I think this should be on par with regular sensors. If it is not then this should be a really expensive tech to research. Since u research sensors u should probably research this, or u could add this to sensors and make the tech more expensive. U could make this where u can upgrade the sensors.

     Do we give border sensors lasers or whatever type of weapon u want. I'm talking about missiles, guns, or lasers. Cam we upgrade these weapons with the border sensors to. Are these starbases or ships. If these r starbases I guess these would require constructors and the tech for these would probably under advanced starbase construction instead of sensors. If this was a ship then the ship would have hull points, and this might have a specialized module. This could be its own tech tree or a combination sensors, advanced starbase construction, sips or , or any of the three. This could be different for different species.  Are we sure we can't make a ship that can't do this maybe we need a bigger hull. If this is true maybe they just need to tweek existing concepts. This is a matter for Stardock.

There r a few thubgs U came up for border sensors, they should be harder to research and implement than regular sensors since this provides more of a benifit than regular sensors to my opinion. I think if this isn't a planetary improvement or a starbase module then the range of the sensors should be limited depending depending on what planets r colonised, starbases u've set up, and territory u've explored. The reason I've made this distinction is that sometimes your influence is bigger than the explored part of your territory. Some of my ideas r super projects, 1 per planet improvement, starbases, and even a galactic achievement or trade good.

As a one per planet this could be put on all your outlying planets as a way to patroll your borders I think this might have a patrol range of 1 tile. Another option is a super project; the super project would probably be 1 of your more expensive super projects since this gives u a big advantage to my opinion. I think as far as projects, achievements, and trade goods the Terrans and Archeans should have to minus a wonder to have this one. Because they r the only 1's to have all the standard wonders. What ever wonder that was minused from these 2 should oribably added to the underperforming species. This would be fair to my opinion. Now if this was a Galactic achievement or trade good u would think this is unfair at first, but it would be a little less cheasy when u add my one per planet idea. This could also be added to the starbases  as an advanced starbase module. This could also be used in a variety of different ways for different species. The reason u would do this is because different tech trees work differently. The options r superproject, one per planet, and a starbase module. This would at least provide different feeld for different species.

Another consideration is would all the species would be able to do this. Would the good species be able to do this. Maybe only the Dominion of korx, Iconians, and the Yor would be the only species that could do this. Beings that there is an isolationists and neutrals. Maybe only the neutrals and evil races can do this. That would the Yor. Drengin, Thalans, Drath, Korath clan, Dominion of korx, and the Iconians. Maybe only the Yor could do this because they r super isolationists, or maybe everyone could have this ability.

     I was thinking that instead of having a right of passage agreements we could tack this on the alliance treaty.

     What we might be able to do with the closing borders thing might be dependent on the species. LetsI take the Terran alliance, I'm basing on our current border policy assuming this is a closing borders thing. By the time of the game there would be no capital punishment. so we would try to capture the ships, and judging by our current imigration policy with illegal immigrants we would probably deport them while confiscating the ship that our current laws wouldn't let us use, so we would destroy them.  This wouldn't necessary happen to other species like the Yor would exterminate u outright. The Korath clan would do the same as the Yor; unless, your Drengin. The Drengin on the other hand would take them to be slaves; unless, your Yor then they would probably deport them. The Dominion of Korx would sell them as slaves to other races. The Krynn and the Iconians would probably try to make them double agents, ir if they refused take them prisoners. Again these r just ideas u may have better ideas, or want to change them. 

      U could choose to try and capture the ships, or try and destroy them. If u try and capture them there is a chance u will accidently destroy them. The captain might choose to self destruct the ship. If u capture them then u could either return the ship to its owner, or u could keep the ship to use or upgrade. The ship might need to be repaired before u use them. If u keep the ship u would have options like selling the ship, use the ship, or upgrade the ship like it is scrap metal. With the people who surrendered u have options on what u can do. U can try to ran some the people back to civilization they came from, make them slaves, kill them, deport them, get them to join u, make them prisoners, eat them, bribe them to join u, Torture them, sell them, use them as spies, put them in arenas for entertainment purposes to increase morale if u r evil, or lower morale if u r good. I think if enough of them join your society u may have problems with rebellions and revolts.u may

     This would be nicer if u actually capture heroes. I don't think these should be random, but if this is a attack fleet u may capture an heroe. These would be more valuable for ransumming. They would require more money for bribing. If they join your civilization they r more likely to cause rebellions. You could sell a heroe for more than a slave. They would make better gladiators.

     This does remind me of the United States policy after world war 1 and before world war 2. And 18th century Japan. Where Perry, Britian, and Russia pretty much didn't aknowledge their closed borders. This pretty much didn't work for the Russians.

You are mixing up two different things here: In real life, the immigrants you mean are private persons, trying to get a new, better life. The gouvernments of the nations they come from didn't send them and they are acting on their own.

We're talking about ships belonging to a star nation here, which will cross the official borders only with the explicit order of a gouvermnent to do so. So any such ship crossing a border closed to the nation it belongs to is a deliberate action to violate this space so it becomes a matter of diplomatics.

There's no real need to weaponise borders sensors - I was thinking of them as small probes, packages of sensor pods with power supplies and not much else. All they're there for is to detect passage across the border; you've got ships and things to actually enforce border control since it would be costly to equip the sensor net with weapons and in any case that moves it into the problems with interstellar minefields.

Therefore they'd come under the sensor techs, and maybe get improved with more advanced sensor tech, becoming smaller and cheaper and more sensitive the more advanced you are. I'm not sure if it would be expensive or not to sprinkle small sensor probes along an entire border, so maybe you put them in places of potential high-density traffic like your border near a Drenin colony world or whatever.

These will aid you in detecting trespassers for your ships to intercept and give early warning if a war-fleet enters your territory, even if they get blown up that's some warning that something big is coming, though you won't know what exactly.

The ony way to do something similar in GalCiv II was to park scout ships or fighters along your border to keep an eye on people, but that was expensive, especially maintenance-wise. This could provide a way for players to actually feel as if the space they've laid claim to it actually recognised under galactic law; it gives the a way to mark their boundary besides treaties and to guard it in some limited fashion.

Bear in mind that this just lets you see your border and you've got to deploy these probes in the first place, maybe with a constructor. They'll be pretty useless if you don't have ships or starbases to police your border in addition to the sensors.

I don't think this would run into the same problems as a mine field since at most you would probably need 1 sensor per tile at lowest tech level and possibly upgrade the sensor's to a range of 5 or so through techs

I think that these sensors should have some kind of maintenance cost although fairly low 1 credit per ten sensors or something

I almost think that it should have a specialized ship to make them or possibly be deployed from a military ship.

I would like to see some kind of mechanic where I can "draw" a line and say place 1 sensor per X tiles on this line

Why should the player have to think about that? Isn't it obvious that a player is going to want to monitor their border for activity? Setting that up isn't fun or an interesting choice, it's tedious gruntwork.

We don't even know exactly how borders are defined yet in the game, but it seems reasonable to assume that someone in the bureaucracy of an interstellar empire is going to be tasked with sensors so the player doesn't have to worry about something so trivial.